Great website!!! I especially enjoyed the section on the missing movie film scripts. I know it is well documented about these four missing movies and they are indeed considered "lost". I also need to preface this by saying I am new to this site and have not followed all the forums out there that I am sure have had these type discussions before. So forgive me if I bring to the table a topic that has been thoroughly covered. I love Charlie Chan movies and would love as much as other fans to be able to hear the news that one day any( if not all!) of these missing films are discovered. So with that.....one or two more questions on the subject for the experts out there.
Does anyone know if it is documented anywhere when these four movies were first considered "lost" and if so, was it after television had been invented? My thinking is that it had to have been before television and that TV stations never had a copy of these movies to show locally. But wouldn't that be something if it was discovered that at one time some TV station somewhere had these movies or at least one of them and they were actually shown on the 'boob tube'!!! More wishful thinking, I guess.....

Jeff,
I enjoy hearing about new people who are aware of the "lost" Chans because the more people who know . . . the better chance we might find them.
Maybe I'm an optimist but who knows where they might be found!
Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz gave a copy of their pilot episode of I LOVE LUCY to the South American comic who had helped them develop the premise to the show. Decades after it was thought to be lost, his widow found out that the print they'd been showing after dinner as entertainment was the only one left!
Let's keep looking!
Virginia

Dear Jeff,

First of all, WELCOME!

The subject of the "lost" Charlie Chan films is always a fascinating one, no matter how often it is brought up! The "legend" regarding the moment that these movies were lost revolves around a fire at the archives of 20th Century-Fox in the year 1962. I agree with you about the possibility that these four pictures were aired during the early years of television. It would perhaps be both interesting and fruitful is we could research old issues of "TV Guide" from different parts of the country to see if this was indeed the case.

Inerestingly, in an article from 1955, entitled "Charlie Chan in Hollywood," which may be found here in our Study under the "Charlie Chan" heading, the author mentions the "lost" films with some knowlege of their content with no hint that they did not exist at that time. This could be a clue as to their possible existence at that time.

A couple of years ago, a reliable source revealed that he had heard of the existence of a copy of "Charlie Chan Carries On" in the hands of a private individual. Evidently, the person holding this treasure was seeking to restore the movie. Some possible hope here, if true.

Another interesting ray of hope glinted briefly about a year and a half ago, when I came into contact with a gentleman from Australia who mentioned having a video tape of an old French-dubbed Charlie Chan film that was given to him by a friend who has a copy of the original. From his description of the movie, it was doubtlessly "Charlie Chan's Chance." It also seemed that a reel of the original was missing, as the length as described was about 15 minutes short. I have tried to continue contact with this person, but to no avail, sadly. Although this csats some doubt on his story, if he was looking to create a hoax, he was doing a masterful job of it! (he could have possibly read through our script for the same film, and then concocted his tale, but the story had a ring of truth to it, I must say!)

So, with all of this said, I, as Virginia, have some optimism that one or more of the "lost" Chan films will eventually surface. It is a very big world, and there are many places where these movies could now be reposing, awaiting the right person to recognize just what they really are.

Thank you for your interest, Jeff, and again, welcome...

Sincerely,
Rush Glick

Hi Jeff (and welcome),

You may have recently read about the discovery of a Valentino film long considered lost so there's always hope.

Unfortunately with each passing year the possibility of finding missing films grows dimmer and dimmer. Even if a copy were to be located, the nitrate content may have caused the film to rot away.

An associate of Ken Hanke, who wrote a book about Chan in the late 80s, once stated that he and Hanke spent two years looking for the films without success. Our own Steve Rhodes has spent much time in this regard also, and I believe he was able to locate a trailer for one of the lost films in a US archive.

Some people even have gone as far as contacting the heirs of people who appeared in these movies to see if they had copies.

Rob Metz once stated that he believed that Fox had copies of these films or knew where to get them. I suppose that's possible, but I would think that Fox would have made them available if only because Chan used to be staple of local programming.

I personally think the best chance of turning up one of these gems is that someone has a 16mm copy from a 1950's TV showing. Such a copy may be incomplete since many movies were edited to fit in a one hour time slot with commercials. Many B-Westerns exist today only in truncated versions because of this.

Sorry to ramble on Jeff, but this is a topic that we Chan fans never get tired of talking about!

Steve

Thanks for everyone's gracious welcome and more than generous replies. I must confess that even though I worded the first email to sound as if I had just found the site, I have been somewhat following the postings on the 'other site'(charliechan.net) off and on for about a year now and actually posted on the board before. I had visited this site before but not spent a lot of time here. Both sites are great and I enjoy them in my free time. Having said that, I still consider myself a 'newbie' and a very novice Chan fan when it comes to Chan trivia. If I may expound on this a little.....

My love for Chan movies and old movies in general(especially 'B' movies) began with my local TV station before the days of cable TV while growing up in the 70's. This particular station had a fairly large inventory of old movies to the point where they began broadcasting 'all night movies' every day, except on Sunday. Sunday evenings, however, back in the early 80's, I remember they started showing all of the old mystery movies, Charlie Chan, Mr. Moto, and Sherlock Holmes. They would show them in chronological order too, beginning with the earliest movie in the series. I do recall, however, that they would always start with "Charlie Chan in London" as the first one. They did not even have a copy of "The Black Camel" (Any idea why??), which I have to confess, I have not seen yet! They did have "Charlie Chan in Paris"(one of my favorites) which I understand was discovered in the late 70's/early 80's timeframe.

Also, in the early 80's came the VCR. My family was quick to jump on board with this new gadget and thus began my collection of Chan movies. My collection dates back to the mid-80's and is incomplete, however, I do have most of them, including the Monograms, as well as most of the Sherlock Holmes and Mr. Moto movies. Since recording these back in the 80's, I have not added to my collection to complete the series, even though I have had ample opportunities i.e. the AMC days and Fox Movie channel festival showing from three or four years ago. In fact, mostly my VCR tapes have sat on the shelf collecting dust. Occasionally my wife, who also loves the Chan movies, and I would pull one out and watch it.

About a year ago, I made it a point to take stock of all the movies I had recorded and record the inventory. This is what started a renewed interest in the old movies and recently I decided to begin the long journey of archiving the tapes to DVD, which is going quite well and I am pleased with the quality transfers. Anyway, it was here that I started playing the 'what if' scenarios with the 'lost' movies in my mind. Suffice it to say, all of this has rekindled my fascination with old movies and an interest in the subject of movie restoration and the 'lost' movies. Perhaps it has something to do with me getting a little older too and acquiring a deeper appreciation for them and what they have meant to me in my life and the significance they hold for all of us who love movies.

Did not intend to be so long with this but I feel better now. Ha! Anyway, I will begin my new rekindled vigor for the Chan movies with acquiring some books on the subject. I want to start with one of the three authoritative books on the subject(Dr. Berlin, Mitchell, or Ken Handke(spelling????). Of these, which is recommended, particularly with the 'lost' movie subject in mind or does one compliment the other and so I should consider getting all three eventually? Also, are there any other publications, old newspaper articles, journals entries, website postings that anyone could point me too that expounds on the 'lost' movies and film restoration.

Finally, do we all need to band together with our torches in hand and parade down( I am thinking of the old Universal Frankenstein movie at the end where the villagers decide to take things in their own hands) to the Fox movie vault in Kansas and demand that they let us search for the 'lost' Chan movies. What is the last count...over a million movies they have? Might take a while but I'm game. Ha! Hope everyone has a great Memorial day!!

Sincerely,

Jeff

if you are looking for a copy of the black camel, try eddie brandt's saturday matinee at 5006 vineland,
north hollywood, cal. 818-506-4242 open sat. 8:30/5pm open tuesday-friday 1:00/6pm if you have no success please let me know.

hope this helps you
don / bob

Jeff,
I'm glad that Robert mentioned Eddie Brandt. It never hurts to hear about another Chan movie outlet!

Rush also has some listed on this website in the "links" section.

A lot of us started watching the Chans, Sherlocks, Motos, etc., as well as the Universal horror films years ago and took to recording them on cable as we could onto vhs tape.

So, Jeff, you are now amongst family!

Perhaps you could make the chat room tonight or some other Monday night? We cover a wide range of topics so you wouldn't have to worry about the cnversation if you don't have that particular movie?

I promise that I can "go long" too, so please do consider joining us!

Take care,
Virginia