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Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Dear Doug,

GREAT to hear from you!

This is potentially wonderful news! This is also an avenue that has never been considered before, as far as I can recall. Great work, sir, and please let us know if ANY information comes from this. It is possible, ant, as we are speaking of records, that these would probably not have been stored with the ill-fated films. In fact, these recordings could be anywhere today, and, from the web address you provided, it seems that we are talking the library at the University of California, Santa Barbara, which could be very good news, indeed!

A possible negative would lie in the possibility that at least some of the records could have been seen as of no value and could have been discarded. Let's hold out some hope, though, as we might one day have at least a partial happy ending to the lost Charlie Chan films saga.

Thank you again for your great work on this!

Sincerely,
Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

How can one listen to the recordings. I found the site and the listings but no obvious way to listen?

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Hi, Paul,

I found the same, and am trying to find a person connected with the library who can possibly help us.

-Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

I just got off the phone after speaking with a very helpful person at the UCSB Special Collections Library. Sadly, these recordings are not available and their status is listed as "unknown." I was told that their database lists ALL known recordings of all fields, including our hoped-for Charlie Chan movie soundtracks/dialogue recordings, whether available or otherwise. It was suggested that we try the Library of Congress next, as they would be the most likely to hold access to these materials.

Years ago, I recall that the Library of Congress had a copy of the trailer for "Charlie Chan Carries On." It was going to be shown there, and, I was so excited even at that news, that I entertained thoughts - briefly! - of traveling to Washington to see it. However, we now have that available on DVD ("Hollywood Chinese") for viewing. I bring this up mainly to suggest that if these discs exist, the Library of Congress will be our best hope. One of our weekly Monday Chat participants is a librarian, and perhaps he can offer the best suggestion on how best to pursue this!

Sincerely,
Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

I didn't hear anything back via email, so I'm glad you made the phone call and discovered the status of the recordings, though it's too bad their status is 'unknown.'

Actually, I live in the Washington DC area (in northern Virginia), so I would be able to go to the Library of Congress in person, if needed.

I also know someone personally who used to work in the Library of Congress and who took us on a tour. Perhaps I can ask him how to proceed.

These audio recordings of the sound track were made back in the early 1930s. That's something. However, they could be anywhere, and there's no knowing if any of them may have survived.

Yet, if they could be tracked down, it would at least be possible to hear something from a lost Chan film.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

On an unrelated matter, my ten-year-old son loves Charlie Chan movies and novels.

I read to him every night, and we recently finished 'The Black Camel'. Now we are most of the way though 'Behind that Curtain.'

We have also watched quite a few of the Chan films. I think we have now watched all the (surviving!) Oland films and a good number of the Toler as well. I have the full set of the Chan films on DVD now that they've all been released.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Here's all about the place where these recordings would have been made ...

http://www.stokowski.org/Camden%20Church%20Studio%20Recording%20Location.htm

Purchase of the Camden Trinity Baptist Church

Because of its need for a larger recording studio, the Victor Talking Machine Company decided to purchase the Camden Trinity Baptist Church in 1918. As Raymond Sooy wrote in his memoirs: " ... February, 1918: The Victor Company purchased the Trinity Church, 114 North Fifth Street, Camden, N.J., as we needed a larger studio for Symphony Orchestra recording ... "

There are more details about it. ... etc. etc. and then ...

Motion Picture Soundtrack Recording in the Camden Church Studio

In addition to electrical phonograph record recording, the Camden Church Studio also did some early motion picture sound recording. Beginning in 1927, equipment for recording motion picture sound tracks on disks synchronized with film was added to the Camden Church Studio. One of the first was for Wings starring Clara Bow and Buddy Rogers, with Gary Cooper in one of his earliest roles.

Then more details ... and then ...

End of Recording in the Camden Church Studio

In 1935, the city of Camden decided to extend its subway system below the church location, and first the construction, and later the rumbling subway noise ended the Trinity Church’s role as a famous recording location. Most recording was thereafter moved to New York, or other locations. The Philadelphia Orchestra benefited from this, returning to recording in the Academy of Music in December 1935.

RCA Victor then converted the building into a gymnasium for the Victor Athletic Association, and later also added the Employees' Store. Ben Kragting, editor of a Dutch Jazz magazine, who has also been interested in the rich recording history of the Camden Church Studio did some investigation in 2008 on the Philadelphia location, and informed me that unfortunately, the Camden Trinity Church structure no longer exists, presumably torn down some time after 1947.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

If you look at all the recordings, some of the disks have Take 1 and Take 1A, and although some have a status of 'Unknown' listed for both, some have a status of 'Hold' for some. I don't know if that's important at all though. I don't know what 'Hold' means here exactly.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Interesting information! All of the "lost" Chan movie soundtracks dated between 1931 and 1934. Hopefully, all the recordings were safely and carefully moved to the new location.

-Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

That's wonderful! Your son is very fortunate, indeed!

Sincerely,
Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

It might be good if you could speak with your friend about how these recordings could be tracked down at the Library of Congress, if, indeed they are there to be found. If we could somehow get the soundtracks from the four lost Chan films, that in itself would be a wonderful find! At least people would be able to listen to the movies.

Sincerely,
Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Rush Glick
I just got off the phone after speaking with a very helpful person at the UCSB Special Collections Library. Sadly, these recordings are not available and their status is listed as "unknown." I was told that their database lists ALL known recordings of all fields, including our hoped-for Charlie Chan movie soundtracks/dialogue recordings, whether available or otherwise. It was suggested that we try the Library of Congress next, as they would be the most likely to hold access to these materials.

Years ago, I recall that the Library of Congress had a copy of the trailer for "Charlie Chan Carries On." It was going to be shown there, and, I was so excited even at that news, that I entertained thoughts - briefly! - of traveling to Washington to see it. However, we now have that available on DVD ("Hollywood Chinese") for viewing. I bring this up mainly to suggest that if these discs exist, the Library of Congress will be our best hope. One of our weekly Monday Chat participants is a librarian, and perhaps he can offer the best suggestion on how best to pursue this!

Sincerely,
Rush
Rush:

If you would be interested in checking on just one other detail with a librarian ...

Consider a listing such as this one ...

http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/2000015419/MVE-68776-Charlie_Chan_carries_on

Victor matrix MVE-68776.

That was Reel 2. The status of the two takes are ...

Take Date and Place Take Status
3/18/1931 Camden, New Jersey. Church Bldg. Studio 1 1 Hold
3/18/1931 Camden, New Jersey. Church Bldg. Studio 1 1A Unknown

It would be good to know what 'Hold' means here. Not all the recordings have an 'Unknown' status.

I will try to talk soon with my friend who worked for years at the Library of Congress.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

I will try to do that at our Monday Chat tomorrow, provided he appears.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Rush Glick
I will try to do that at our Monday Chat tomorrow, provided he appears.
Thanks! And, as soon as I get an opportunity, I'll ask my friend about how to research recordings with the Library of Congress.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Our librarian friend was with us two weeks ago, and I gave him the information. He was not in attendance last week, but when next he participates, I will see if he has had even the slightest luck on this.

-Rush

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Rush Glick
Our librarian friend was with us two weeks ago, and I gave him the information. He was not in attendance last week, but when next he participates, I will see if he has had even the slightest luck on this.

-Rush
I finally had a free moment to call a librarian at the Library of Congress. This was a very helpful librarian working in the sound recordings division.

He pulled up the same listings from the Discography of American Historical Recordings website by searching on 'Charlie Chan', and I explained to him about 'Charlie Chan Carries On' and 'Charlie Chan's Chance' being missing films, but 'Eran Trece' being the surviving Spanish-language version of 'Carries On'. I also noted that soundtracks had apparently been made of other films besides these two Chan films, so that there might be soundtracks of other lost films in existence somewhere.

He did a quick search and located the trailer for 'Charlie Chan Carries On', which we know is in the library's collection.

The recordings on the DAHR website are described as 16" discs, and the library has a collection of such discs, though we shouldn't get our hopes up, as it seems likely that someone would have probably noticed them previously since they are soundtracks of well-known lost films.

Yet, even if we discover they are not in the library, the next question would be how to find out what happened to these various soundtrack recordings. Did they go up in flames along with the film prints in 1937, or were they perhaps stored somewhere else? Might they still exist? What was their fate?

I gave him my phone number and email address, and he promised to look into the matter further and to get back to me.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Here's an update.

The librarian in the sound recordings division confirmed that none of these soundtrack recordings exist in their catalogued holdings. That didn't surprise me, but it needed to be checked anyway.

I asked if he had an suggestions about what next to try in tracking down the fate of these recordings. He suggested talking to one of the librarians in the moving pictures division, as that division may have more information about who to contact to track down movie soundtrack recordings.

I will do that once I have another bit of free time.

It is clear that these recordings were made in 1931 and 1932, but determining the exact fate of these discs may be very difficult. I'm going to give it a try though.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Thank you for all of your time and effort on this project. I'm still hopeful that something will turn up.

Re: Audio Recordings of Lost Chan Films

Dear Douglas,

I will echo what John said, and thank you for your GREAT work on this! Even if we continue hit dead ends, just knowing that such recordings were made at all is of great interest! Who knows, at the end of one "dead end" their could be a glimmer of hope to one day finding one or more of these elusive discs!

Thank you, again, and, it should go without saying, please keep us informed on anything that turns up...even if it's yet another wall!

Sincerely,
Rush