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Re: Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

You know, the one thing that really incenses me is the fact that some of these big studios and distributors didn't keep their copyrights in check and up to date.

Take, for instance, the "Our Gang/Little Rascals" shorts. Now, MGM had distribution control of Hal Roach's shorts from the mid-late 1920's on to the end of the run in 1944. In 1938, MGM bought the series out-right - and all of the titles it distributed from, I believe, 1926 on (Pathe distributed the "Our Gang" shorts from its begining in 1922 'til MGM took over).

Now, SOMEHOW, MGM dropped it like a hot potato after 1944, let the copyright lapse, THEN sold the name and films back to Hal Roach for television syndication. And from there, the web gets so tangled that even a nuclear physicist would get tongue-tied.

Thank goodness that Cabin Fever somehow had the juice to snag ALL of the "Our Gang" talkies from 1929-1938 and a few silents from 1927-1929 from the Library of Congress, otherwise we'd be stuck watching 5th hand syndication copies that are so butchered and out of focus that not even Mr. Magoo could discern them.

Anyways, my point is, if MGM had kept things in check with the copyrights from jump street, they wouldn't need to go "looking for suitable prints" of the Chan Monograms - they'd already have 'em in their own doggone vaults!

Now, what's Fox's story on letting their Chans lapse into public domain in the first place and how'd they re-acquire the sole distribution rights?

I apologize, Rush. It's just that it makes me angrier and angrier every time I think about these studios letting, basically, history turn into the ashes known as "public domain" like they have. It's this uncaring attitude that lets these films fall into sets of hands that have no idea (or care) whatsoever about film preservation - I'm talking of the physical films themselves, which these studio morons, by way of the above non-action on their part, let deteriorate past the point of restoration or even salvage in some cases.

In short, if Fox had kept their act together from the get-go, there'd still be 4 more films in the Chan series common and MGM would've had their run of the Monogram Chans out already.

Ugh! My apologies again.

Re: Re: Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

Dear Swingman,

I understand your frustration, especially with regard to the "Our Gang" comedies which I grew up watching on television. Whle these films may have lapsed into public domain as you suggest, the same was not the case with the Charlie Chan films. While certain studios may have been careless with what they controlled, all Chan films remain under strict copyright control.

20th Century-Fox has never relinquished the rights to its Charlie Chan movies, although it has allowed others to hold distribution rights at one point or another. I am specifically thinking of Warner Brothers/Seven Arts distributing the Fox Charlie Chan films in the late 1960s.

The Monogram Chans have passed through a lineage that now has eleven of them under the umbrella of Warner Brothers, and six controlled by MGM. As we know, MGM Home Entertainment released their six Chans a few years ago, and, it is rumored, as mentioned above, that Warner Brothers will be issuing theirs in the future.

Whether it is the fault of studios' shoddy bookkeeping, negligence, etc. that certain films from the Charlie Chan series have been "lost" or have fallen into a sorry state of preservation, I cannot say. However, I can say that these films are not in the public domain, even though some "grey market" sellers would tell us otherwise!

Hopefully, today, all studios are taking greater pains to preserve the pictures that they control, and the problems to which you allude are not going to happen in the future. My humble opinion of the often less than adequate methods used decades ago was more a result of never dreaming that their older work would be much valued in the future. Certainly the huge video market that we have in our day wasn't even dreamed of in the wildest imaginings of studio powers-that-were!

Sincerely,
Rush Glick

Re: Re: Re: Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

Dear Rush: With all the talk of the release of the Chan films by MGM and Warner Brothers where do the Roland Winters films fit in? I know they are not nearly as good as the earlier ones, but still not so bad and I for one would welcome their release. Sincerely, Russell Rubert P.S. How about the TV shows. I realize they are even further down the "food chain", but completist that I am, would like them out there as well.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

Dear Russell,

The Roland Winters Charlie Chan films, six in number, would most certainly be a part of the hoped-for Warner Brothers release. As for "The New Adventures of Charlie Chan" television show from 1957, I have heard absolutely nothing regarding an eventual commercial release. The only way that we can obtain copies at present is through the "grey market" sellers, and I have seen them listed on eBay with some regularity. I purchased a set from a seller of good repute who is listed in our "Links" page, and am pleased, overall, with the quality of the product. Hopefully, one day, these TV Chans, starring J. Carrol Naish will be made available through some "legitimate" means, however, I would not hold my breath awaiting such an eventuality!

Sincerely,
Rush Glick

Re: Re: Re: Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

Thanks for the explaination, Rush.

I wonder, then, why there hasn't been "suitable" prints found for the rest of the Monogram Chans then?

I hear ya on your take of the preservation issue - hence my use of the phrase "lack of foresight".

I remember reading somewhere that more than a few studios decades ago used to re-master/make new copies of their catalog on new stock every 20 years or so as a form of preservation.....

Re: Of lost copyrights, mental lapses and a pure lack of foresight?

Monogram Studios wasn't known as a "Poverty Row" studio for nothing. Everything was done on the cheap which included asset preservation. They simply didn't have the means to preserve their prints the way the major studios did.

As Rush said, Warners is the latest in a long line of owners of these prints. They can only work with what they inherited, which isn't much. Consequently they need to upgrade the quality of some of their titles to get a marketable DVD produced. In my opinion, the Monograms couldn't be in better hands since Warners is known for having one of the best restoration teams around.

As for the timing of the releases, it is my speculation that they are waiting for Fox to exhaust their titles before putting theirs on the market. From a business perspective it makes more sense to do it that way.

Regarding "public domain"...very few films from the major studios are in the public domain. Bootleggers will tell you otherwise as a way to justify their sales. The films that tend to be in public domain are those made by independent studios that no longer exist.

Steve