Just noticed that the results from the recent St Helens 10k have been removed from the championship results because it was apparently 'short' (my gps clocking 6.05 km).
I think the decision to remove these results has been very hasty especially as the race organisers are adamant the course was not short and are in conversations with UK Athletics about it. Also how many races do we actually do that clock the exact distance, for example the recent Liverpool Half Marathon that a lot of PBs where achieved within the club only clocked 13.02 on my GPS watch .... Are these results going to be removed??

I have also noticed the results have remained the same on the Merseyside Grand Prix which Tim Warn is Coordinator.

This decision has obviously had an impact for a number of members within the club who have missed out on PBs and for me personally who has been injured since November and planned my races to try and move up in the championship which I did into second behind Martin in 10k but now 3rd without any time to do another 10k before the end of the season.

I think I for one would appreciate the reinstallment of these results within the championship.

Jay

There are tollerences for distance racing I am sure that St Helens would be within these .there are many races that are both short and long (chester zoo 10k p.b )and have been included in the championship . If we are going to be strict, then London marathon will have to go because it finishes lower than it starts so is deemed DOWNHILL ,

Seems a bit harsh to me. Loads of races turn out to a fraction short or long but it's not as though people know beforehand that they're incorrectly measured, and enter them based on that. And Marty is right - a lot of very famous races would be ruled out e.g. the Great North Run

Life was a lot simpler before Garmins!

I think St Helens was outside the tolerance. Most people seem to say it was 200m short.

It stands in the Grand Prix as that is based on position in specific races.

The Western States starts much higher than it finishes, yet calling it downhill is somewhat misleading. The same applies for the TDS. There are rules for marathons, hence Boston does not count for world records. I'm sure it would be ok for PLS.

As a side I think I am now in second place for the under 40 10k. I wonder who'll replace old Martin at the top next year.

Nice to see two of the more experienced runners within the club voicing their support and showing common sense thanks Marty and Nigel.

Yes races are short / long / finish lower / higher but my point being here is that the members of PLS who took part in the race did so on the pretence the course was accurately measured as it was the previous 3 years (I have saw the certificates) and would be included in the club championship as the only reason races are deemed void by the committee is that if it clashes with Cross Country.
My second point also being about planning races a head to coincide with championship I booked 3 (st Helens, Liverpool half and Hale 5) to try and improve my times. The withdrawal of St. Helens after it was included in the championship left me without an option. Making it more frustrating was my time for today's Hale 5mile would of worked out as a 36:30 10k ..... Faster than St Helens.


Lawrence - I did the race last year and It definitely wasn't 200m short.
I'm not sure if you do go into 2nd but if my St Helens time is counted I know for sure that I do. It will be a good battle next season between 4/5 people who will get the 'male open' that's for sure.

I wasn't aware of this issue until this thread was mentioned to me earlier but can assure you that we will look into the matter and come back to you in due course with a response. It would however be appreciated that if anyone has an issue they would like addressing they provide committee members the courtesy of raising it privately rather than on the forum in order that we can investigate and respond accordingly having first had a chance to fully undesrstand the matter at hand.

Two way street Mike - I wasn't made aware of the results being withdrawn by any senior figure within the club until I checked the spreadsheet hence why I have asked the question about the withdrawal.

I did think the forum was here to raise issues such as the one in question in a respectable manner not being derogatory about the club or any members in doing so??


I look forward to hearing the decision that has been made in the upcoming days.

The name's in the Club 'Penny Lane "STRIDERS"' - what's with all the fuss!!!

Jay,
For very different reasons but you remind me of myself 8-10 yrs ago...
I have the solution for you, in two words... OFF ROAD ; D

I have no opinion on the matter I'm afraid, extortion fees to enter road races these days have made me stop caring...
Good luck and well done btw, bronze medal is very respectable place...Mo would be proud!

Ciao
Simo

Good Evening All,

Thanks for your patience with this. I have been trying to construct a full picture of what happened at this event for it be declared short, and the subsequent impact on the Club Championship.

More to follow soon.

Thanks

Loved that last post Simmo.

Can't beat turning up to a trail race for less than £4 advertised as 6mileish.

Ssssh Tom, don't tell them, it's our little secret ;D

I cannot find any official statement that the race was short
Who said it was short ?I spoke to the guy at Run Britain , he didn't know what I was talking about.

The Power of 10 results have the comment

"Course advised short by the Course Measurement Secretary North of England"

That said the results are still there so not clear. Nigel Foo contacted them and they said they were discussing with Uk Athletics. There have been a number of queries to the organisers on Facebook but no official reply or posting yet.

Oh, for heaven's sake just let the results stand and let's all move on.

Life's too short

Any news, Mike R Chairman, Andy C, other members of committee?

I agree with Nigel. Let the results stand, or PLS refund the entry fee for those who ran.

Hi all,

There is currently an ongoing investigation in to this and I am waiting on the report. This will be Friday afternoon. I will update on here as soon as I can.

Thanks for your patience with this, the resolution has taken longer than expected, this was out of our hands.

Thanks

I'd like to offer the opposite view to Nigel. For people who are competing for a prize in the club competition you need a level playing field. If this race was short then it should be out. End of. It is a real shame for those who got caught up in it but how can you suggest that the time for a short course is comparable with a regular one.

Either that or next time we line up for a race I start further up the road and whoever cannot catch me before the finish can just forget about it and move on. Sounds about as reasonable.

And Joe. Is that what they do on your planet? Welcome to earth, we have coconuts and chocolate. It's great.

Let it go

Cristina that was a poor comment as if you would of raced you would have a totally different opinion we didn't enter knowing it was short, so Joes comment is fair, maybe not PLS offering refunds but the club representing its members to the race organisers in harbouring refunds.

Also shouldn't you be promoting and abiding by the club constitution being on the committee ... Which unless it is out of date fails to mention that results can be voided by the club ... unless races clash with XC or a clubs own race???

Just to get a bit of perspective. This is not the first time a race has been removed from the results due to it being short. The results of the Cardiff Half marathon were removed in 2010, when that race was short. For the club championship it is implicit that the distances of the events are as stated. If the race is short it is not the club's fault. In 2010 Cardiff Half Marathon organisers went public and apologised. The only difference in this case is that St Helens have not made any public pronunciations, despite messages from a number of PLS members.

Power of 10 show the results as not being a valid 10k (10KSHORT), with no PBs updated following the event, so while it is a valid race for the Merseyside GP it is not counted as a 10k unfortunately at this stage. I know the club are still investigating the issue so this is not an official response by any means, as I only record the results.

Two Italians Two different messages (takes me back to 41 )
One strong willed and menopausel the other posting pictures of my wife
Nice post Andy though I am affected as well I understand your logic

Jay C - if I had raced for a time in the club champs I would have been very disappointed just like you. I have had times voided twice in past years through circumstances totally out of my control. In both cases I would have won first place for my age category so I understand only too well how you feel.

Of course nobody knows they're going to enter a short or long race and by all means the club should put pressure on the organisers to somehow recompense runners who purchased a faulty product, but from there to saying that it's worth the same as a correctly measured race for the purposes of our competition or that the club should reimburse us it is a very long leap. So no, I don't think mine was a poor comment at all.

For the avoidance of doubt I am not on the committee, unless someone has elected me without telling me.

Now where did I put that HRT.

During the last two weeks, I have been looking into the issues arising from the recording of the St. Helens 10k as short. I have been in contact with the organisers and also the gentleman responsible for independently measuring and certifying the course to try and fully understand the situation.

The course was measured and a certificate was issued in 2015. For the 2016 event, part of the course was removed which was the basis for the initial reporting of '10k Not As Measured' on RunBritain and Power of 10, and the subsequent investigation.

The course was independently and officially remeasured on Friday morning and it was confirmed as being short by 206.66m. The race has now been recorded as '10kSHORT' with the authorities. This means that they will not figure in any RB/PO10 rankings, records or handicaps.

So, what does this mean for the Club Championship? The constitution states that 'All races organised under the British Athletics Federation, Association of Marathons and Distance Races or the International Amateur Athletics Federation Rules qualify for inclusion in the Club Championship.' These are a complex set of rules and guidelines that cover a multitude of variables. One of which, and key to this case, is that the race must be the distance advertised. Any race that is shorter than the distance or longer than the distance, does not comply to these rules and therefore do not qualify for the Club Championship. The results will not be included in the Season's Best times or count towards the Club Championship.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your patience with this matter but I felt it was important to ensure that the whole story was considered before releasing the final outcome, this did take longer than expected due to the external factors involved.

I would like to make a few other points to go with this. The committee are a group of volunteers that work to ensure the club is well represented and to devise and implement strategies to provide a safe and nurturing environment to its members. They are legally and duty bound by the constitution to do this and therefore any decisions that need to be made that impact any member or members, are referred back to the constitution.

The committee will not make any approach to race organisers who were unable to provide the advertised product in order to gain recompense for members' entry fees. This would not fit in with the nature of the club, if this is required then this would need to be done on an individual level.

Finally, the Forum and Facebook pages are excellent ways to raise concerns, ask questions and gather information and this is actively encouraged. There is no doubt that posts are respectful, humorous, and often provide a wide audience with a great deal of information. But, please don't forget that if you have questions for any committee member, you can make personal contact with them on most club nights or through the various other methods at our disposal these days.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding with this matter.

Andy Cantwell